
This ‘What’s new’ page provides some information about current intercountry adoption issues. Please note that there will be short delays in publishing statements following delegation visits to other countries. This is primarily due to internal and external Australian Government approval processes.
In September last year, following advice from Eastern Social Welfare Society (Eastern), the Department anticipated that 10 children would be allocated to Australian families in the 2011 allocation number by the end of 2011. Australia has received three allocations to date.
Eastern has now advised that the number of allocations in 2011 was lower than anticipated due to the overall reduction in the number of overseas referrals. At this stage, Eastern cannot indicate when, or how many children will be allocated to Australian families in 2012.
The Department will discuss this matter with Eastern in the coming months. Updates on the Australia-South Korea Program will continue to be published on this website. Your State or Territory Central Authority will continue to update people on their applications' progress.
The Department invites applications from interested persons for vacancies on the National Intercountry Adoption Advisory Group (NICAAG).
NICAAG's role is to advise the Attorney-General and the Attorney-General's Department on intercountry adoption issues and act as a conduit between Government and the intercountry adoption community in Australia.
NICAAG's membership reflects the diverse nature of issues arising in the intercountry adoption field. Members are drawn from a variety of backgrounds and include adoptees, adoptive parents, academics, professionals and birth parents. NICAAG includes representatives from each State and Territory as well as members appointed for their experience and expertise in particular aspects of intercountry adoption. This ensures a balance of geographical representation and specialised experience and expertise.
Applications are encouraged from people who have personal or professional experience or knowledge that is relevant to intercountry adoption. Applications are especially encouraged from adoptees who are networked, or willing to establish networks, amongst other adoptees in Australia.
The Department is particularly seeking applications for the Tasmanian representative. Other general appointments will also be made.
Successful applicants will be considered for appointment from 1 April 2012. A merit list of suitable applicants will be developed to fill vacancies that may arise over the next year.
Members are required to attend approximately three, two-day meetings per year and provide out-of-session input and advice. The Department meets the travel costs for members to attend meetings.
It is highly desirable that State and Territory representatives also attend the regular consultative meetings held by the Government department responsible for intercountry adoptions in their State or Territory.
Applications will be assessed according to the three criteria below, based on the NICAAG Terms of Reference:
If you are interested in applying to be a member of NICAAG, please include in your application:
Statements of support are also encouraged.
Applications close at 5pm on Monday 23 January 2012.
Please send applications to nicaag@ag.gov.au or by mail to:
Marriage and Intercountry Adoption Branch
Attorney-General's Department
3-5 National Circuit
BARTON ACT 2600
For further information, please contact the Department on (02) 6141 3217 or nicaag@ag.gov.au or your relevant NICAAG member. NICAAG members' contact details can be found on the National Peak Overseas Adoption Support Group page.
Children whose adoptions are yet to be finalised in Australia, or are not recognised automatically under Australian law, are officially under the guardianship of the Minister for Immigration and Citizenship when they enter Australia. The Minister can delegate his powers and functions as guardian to certain officers in the relevant Central Authority in the State or Territory where the child resides.
The Australian Central Authority in partnership with the Department of Immigration and Citizenship have developed a fact sheet to assist prospective adoptive parents in determining whether their adoptive child falls under the guardianship of the Minister and ways the guardianship can be ceased. It also sets out useful information about the roles and responsibilities of the Minister, the relevant Central Authority and the prospective adoptive parent.
The fact sheet can be accessed here
Please contact your State or Territory Central Authority should you require further information.
Officers from this Department travelled to Ethiopia from 24 October until 6 November 2011 to assess the ongoing ethics and viability of the Program under the new Program arrangements. The officers also investigated how the Program is operating in practice, and worked to strengthen relationships with key Ethiopian Government Departments and Authorities.
Some aspects of the program are operating well. Other aspects of the program continue to present challenges.
The delegation visited the Australia Program Office, which has been operational for over 6 months, and met with all Australia Program staff. It was clear that the Australian Representative, Woz Lemlem Fesseha, and her team have been working very hard to match families with children referred to the Program, manage their adoption cases though the various Ethiopian authorities, research potential partner orphanages and assist with post adoption searching. We would like to acknowledge their very hard work and passionate dedication to assisting Australian families.
The delegation also had valuable frank conversations with our Africa Advisor regarding orphanages and providing orphanage support, development assistance obligations and working with the Ethiopian Government.
The delegation is pleased to report that the background checking process is working well and a lot more information is being provided about the children and their circumstances. There is also a greater emphasis on making sure that each birth family has full and accurate information about intercountry adoption before providing their consent. Recently two birth families decided not to relinquish their children once Australia Program staff had explained the permanent nature of intercountry adoption to them.
The delegation visit coincided with several families travelling to be united with their children. The delegation was delighted to participate in the coffee ceremony where the older children sing and dance to farewell the adopted child. New guidelines for taking custody of children were developed.
The delegation visited the Program’s partner orphanage which operates out of two locations: ‘Tesfa’ in Addis Ababa and ‘Abdi Waq’ in Weliso. These names are regional translations for ‘Hope’.
Orphanage facilities at both locations were clean and brightly coloured. There were ample outdoor play areas including ‘jungle gyms’ and play equipment. The children appeared to be healthy, clean and happy.
The delegation met with a number of relevant Ethiopian Government Departments and Authorities in Addis Ababa and Mekele in Tigray. Both the Federal and Regional level Governments are focusing on providing community-based care for orphaned and vulnerable children. This is consistent with the Ethiopian ‘Alternative Childcare Guidelines’ and the Subsidiarity Principle in the Hague Convention on Protection of Children and Co‑operation in respect of Intercountry Adoption. Both acknowledge it is preferable for children to remain in their community where it is appropriate, safe and possible for them to do so.
Both the Federal and Regional level Governments emphasised the importance of providing development assistance. As previously announced on this website, the Program has provided funding for a project to assist street children delivered through Retrak. This contribution was acknowledged favourably by both the Ethiopian Government and Retrak.
However, during discussions with many orphanages it was clear they had an expectation that the Program would fund further development projects delivered by that orphanage. It is very common for charitable bodies to be concurrently providing aid, sponsorship programs and facilitating adoptions which is not consistent with how the Australia Program operates. Appropriately separating the provision of aid and the adoption process remains difficult.
The Program will only work with orphanages in which we can have trust and confidence and where orphanage directors agree to receive orphanage support payments which are formal, fixed and transparent amounts to meet the reasonable costs of caring for children in care. Identifying such orphanages is proving challenging.
The delegation considered and met with a number of potential partner orphanages during the visit but has not yet entered into working arrangements with any additional orphanages. A potential new program orphanage was identified subject to the local Government granting permission for the program to operate in its region.
The Intercountry Adoption Board of the Philippines (ICAB) has advised partner countries of a change to their eligibility criteria for families who have previously adopted from the Philippines.
ICAB approved a resolution on 23 November 2011 to waive the compulsory psychological tests, namely the Minnesota Multi-Phasic Personality Inventory-2-Restructured Form (MMPI-2-RF) and the Millon Clinical Multiaxial Inventory III (MCMI III), for applicants who have previously adopted from the Philippines.
Applicants who have previously adopted from the Philippines will still have to provide a psychological report from a licensed psychologist. For further information, including about the requirements for the psychological report, please contact your State or Territory Central Authority.
The Thai Central Authority, the Department of Social Development and Welfare (DSDW) has recently confirmed that families with two or more children (which Thailand considers to be a ‘complete’ family) are unlikely to be matched with a subsequent child. Thailand continues to give priority to childless couples.
The Australian Central Authority is not able to provide any advice to families on when or even if a proposed application from a complete family will be submitted to the Child Adoption Board. In practice, recent applications from ‘complete families’ that have actually been referred to the Board, have been declined. Families are unlikely to receive notification of decisions on their applications until after any decision by the Board.
Any updates on this program will continue to be placed on the Department’s intercountry adoption website. Any updates on individual applications, will continue to be conveyed to you by your State or Territory Central Authority.
We are pleased to announce that the Ethiopia Program has provided much appreciated funds to a Community Assistance Project.
The Ethiopia Program has donated funds to Retrak Ethiopia, a locally registered, international NGO which works to keep Ethiopian children in Ethiopian families. Funds donated by the Ethiopia Program will strengthen the Choices and Chances for full-time street children Project in the Addis Ababa area.
The Project targets street children aged between 7 and 17 years, who are among the most vulnerable groups at risk for exploitation, abuse, and poor health. The Project provides street children with food, medical treatment, overnight shelter, emergency clothing and access to education classes (including life skills, HIV/AIDS awareness, vocational training and apprenticeships). In addition to contributing to this general work, the funds provided by the Ethiopia Program will enable another 30 children to be fostered or reunified with their biological family or community.
Funding such projects allows the Ethiopia Program to meet the Ethiopian Government’s community development assistance requirements and to assist vulnerable Ethiopian children through a variety of avenues.
This snapshot shows information that we collect every six months from the State and Territory Central Authorities.
For each intercountry adoption program, the table below shows the total number of:
The statistics show the number of approved applications (801) continues to exceed the number of accepted placement proposals (66). This is consistent with a worldwide trend of decreasing numbers of intercountry adoptions.
|
Agency / Country |
Total number of approved applications at 30 June 2011- waiting both overseas and in Australia |
Number of files sent overseas for the reporting period |
Number of placement proposals accepted for the reporting period |
|---|---|---|---|
|
Bolivia |
2 |
1 |
0 |
|
Chile |
6 |
0 |
0 |
|
China |
322 |
5 |
9 |
|
Colombia |
18 |
6 |
1 |
|
Ethiopia |
95 |
7 |
5 |
|
Fiji |
2 |
0 |
0 |
|
Hong Kong - ISS |
28 |
3 |
1 |
|
Hong Kong – PLK |
4 |
1 |
1 |
|
India |
30 |
0 |
3 |
|
Lithuania |
4 |
0 |
0 |
|
Philippines |
83 |
6 |
10 |
|
South Korea |
39 |
23 |
11 |
|
Sri Lanka |
2 |
0 |
1 |
|
Taiwan – Chung Yi |
7 |
1 |
2 |
|
Taiwan – CSS |
31 |
12 |
14 |
|
Taiwan - CWLF |
7 |
3 |
2 |
|
Thailand |
119 |
3 |
6 |
|
Ad hoc |
2 |
0 |
0 |
|
TOTAL |
801 |
71 |
66 |
Further information about national statistics is available at Intercountry Adoption Statistics.
Subsequent to our announcement of 30 September 2011, India’s Central Adoption Resource Authority (CARA) has now advised partner countries it will not accept new adoption applications until 31 December 2011, or further notice.
CARA has indicated that a substantial number of adoption applications remain with Registered Indian Placement Agencies. CARA believes it is preferable to clear as much of the backlog as possible before accepting new applications.
The status of the India-Australia program remains unchanged, with the Attorney-General’s hold on sending new adoption applications to India remaining in place.
The Attorney-General’s hold on sending new Australian applications to India remains in place.
Existing applications in India will remain with the Registered Indian Placement Agency that they were sent to. Any placement proposals will be processed as usual.
The Central Adoption Resource Authority (CARA) has advised that they intend to accept new adoption applications from partner countries to be processed through their new centralised system from 1 October 2011. Centralising the adoption application assessment system is an important milestone in implementing the new Guidelines Governing the Adoption of Children 2011. This is part of a suite of reforms being undertaken by CARA and the Indian Government to improve the adoption system in India.
The Department is seeking further information from CARA about how the reforms will be implemented, including the operation of the new guidelines. This information will inform future decisions about the operation of the program.
Any enquiries should be directed to your State or Territory Central Authority.
The Attorney-General’s Department recently discussed several matters concerning the operation of the Australia-South Korea Program with Eastern Social Welfare Society. Eastern advised that the South Korean Government will continue to reduce the number of children approved for intercountry adoption by 10% each year, indicating lengthening wait times for prospective adoptive parents. Eastern also noted the South Korean Government’s focus on promoting domestic adoption and that interest in domestic adoption in South Korea has increased.
The Attorney-General’s Department initially received advice in August 2011 about the reduction in the number of exit permits to be issued to Australian families this year. Eastern has since advised that three additional children from the 2010 allocation number (previously called ‘quota’) will travel in 2011. This means that a total of 13 children from the 2010 allocation number will travel in 2011.
Eastern advised that it is difficult to predict when the remaining 12 children from the 2010 allocation number will travel. However, Eastern did note that they may be able to travel by June 2012. Eastern indicated that, where possible, exit permits will be issued in chronological order on the basis of the date of receipt of the child’s assignment letter from the Australian State and Territory Central Authority. The assignment letter is sent by the State or Territory Central Authority following Eastern’s allocation of a child to an Australian family and the relevant Central Authority’s approval of that allocation.
In some circumstances, children with medical needs may be prioritised and granted exit permits before other children whose assignment letters were received earlier. For this reason, we strongly advise waiting families against estimating where they are in the ‘queue’ as unforeseen factors can make such estimates inaccurate and unreliable, and may result in distress when exit permits are not allocated when waiting families might have expected.
Eastern has confirmed that the South Korean Ministry of Health and Welfare (MoHW) will prioritise, from the applications it receives, the allocation of exit permits to children who will be adopted by parents with Korean lineage. However, Eastern has advised that this will not impact the exit permit numbers or timing for Australian waiting families as Eastern’s process is to submit exit permit applications to MoHW in order of the receipt date of assignment letters.
Eastern is working to minimise the impact of delays, both on the children and their waiting families in Australia. Eastern advised that waiting families can send laminated photos of themselves and their children (if applicable) so foster families can familiarise the children with their future families. Similarly, if waiting families have chosen a different name for their child, they may advise Eastern so foster families can begin using this name for the child.
Eastern recognises how important regular updates and photos are to waiting families and is instituting various regular communications through State and Territory Central Authorities. Eastern advised it will endeavour to send updates on the child’s growth (height, weight, head measurement) and a photo every month until the child is one year old, and every two months after that. Eastern will also send a more detailed progress report on a regular basis, approximately every two months. Additionally, Eastern will send advice outside the usual reporting process of any significant changes to a child’s circumstances, such as a change of foster family. Eastern will also send a report detailing the child’s adjustment approximately one month after the change.
All growth updates, photos and progress reports will be sent to the relevant State or Territory Central Authority to be passed onto waiting families. If you experience a significant delay in receiving an update, photo or report, please contact your Central Authority who will liaise with Eastern on your behalf. Eastern noted their increased workload and requested understanding.
Eastern also advised that it would not be feasible to facilitate Skype sessions between waiting families and their children.
Eastern advised that waiting families can send care packages containing clothes, toys and shoes on a regular basis and, in particular, encouraged waiting families to send packages for the child’s birthday. These packages should be no larger than A4 size and labelled clearly with the child’s name and case number. Eastern noted that packages larger than this may result in delayed receipt of the package due to South Korean customs procedures. Items should be enclosed in a zip‑lock bag, also labelled. Please contact your relevant State or Territory Central Authority regarding their procedure for sending packages to Eastern.
Eastern advised that care packages are given to each child when he or she is taken to the agency by their foster family for their regular health check up. Eastern also advised that photos of the children with their gifts are usually taken. Eastern did note that sometimes this is not possible and, in these circumstances, a separate photo will be taken of the care package as proof of receipt. Photos will be sent to State and Territory Central Authorities along with the child’s growth update.
Eastern advised that 10 children from the 2011 allocation number will be allocated to Australian families this year. These allocations will be distributed amongst Australian States and Territories according to the size of their respective populations. It is likely that the remaining families will be allocated a child in 2012.
Eastern confirmed that the Adoption Special Law was passed in July 2011 and will be implemented from July 2012. Eastern indicated that the Adoption Special Law will introduce more complex procedures for intercountry adoption and will require prospective adoptive parents to apply to the South Korean family court for permission to adopt. Further information about the implementation of the new law and its impact on the Australia-Korea Program will be provided closer to the date of its implementation.
The Attorney-General’s Department understands that this is a very difficult time for waiting families. We will closely monitor the ongoing situation and provide further information to both the State and Territory Central Authorities and on this website as it becomes available.
We ask that families remain patient during this time and await advice from their State or Territory Central Authority about the progress of their adoptions. Again, we remind families that it is inappropriate to contact Eastern directly about the progress of their file, and that this distracts their staff from attending to their usual duties and may place Eastern in a difficult situation.
On 16-20 August 2011, a delegation from the Attorney-General's Department and the Victorian Department of Human Services travelled to the Philippines to attend the 11th Global Consultation on Child Welfare Services and for related meetings. The Global Consultation (held every second year) is the largest international forum of its kind in the Asia-Pacific region. The theme of this year’s Consultation was ‘Securing Children’s Rights through Dynamic International Partnerships. ’
The Global Consultation included delegates from 20 countries. A key objective was to raise awareness and cooperation among countries to prevent child trafficking. The Department delivered a paper on Australia’s experience in addressing child trafficking issues in the context of intercountry adoption.
The delegation met with the Inter-Country Adoption Board of the Philippines (ICAB) and the Australian Embassy in Manila. The delegation also had discussions with relevant organisations, including representatives of foreign adoption agencies and Philippine non-government organisations.
The visit provided an excellent opportunity to further strengthen the Department’s relationship with ICAB. The delegation discussed a range of issues relating to the operation of the Philippines-Australia Intercountry Adoption Program, including the moratoriums, the operation of the Special Home Finding List and relative adoption applications.
ICAB advised that it will continue the moratorium on applications to adopt children aged between 0-24 months. ICAB was not able to state when the moratorium will end. ICAB has previously indicated that this moratorium would remain in place until 50 per cent of existing applications for children in that age group had been processed. ICAB advised that although the 50 per cent mark had now been broken, it will not lift the moratorium, because waiting times remain the same. There are also fewer children in need of intercountry adoption in the 0-24 month age bracket.
ICAB also advised that it will continue the moratorium imposed on accepting applications from foreign adoption agencies that had sent 10 or more applications per year during the past three years. The only Australian jurisdiction affected is New South Wales. ICAB was not able to give a timeframe for when the moratorium will be lifted. However, ICAB noted that waiting times remain the same.
There continue to be many older children and children with more complex medical backgrounds in need of families.
For further information, please contact your relevant State or Territory Central Authority.
The Department is pleased to announce that an intercountry adoption working agreement has been signed between the Australian Central Authority (ACA) and the South African Central Authority (SACA). Signing the agreement is an important preliminary step towards opening a program with South Africa.
A number of other steps must also occur before a program can open. These are:
SACA has advised that it is close to finalising accreditation of a small number of CPOs. The Department will continue to progress discussions with SACA. Further information and updates about this potential program will be made available in due course.
The Department is pleased to advise that the Post Adoption Guidelines have been updated and can be accessed on the Current Intercountry Adoption Programs page.
As indicated in the guidelines, all enquiries relating to post adoption searching or exploration should be directed to your State or Territory Central Authority.
The Department is pleased to announce that officers will be travelling to Ethiopia from 24 October until 6 November 2011. The delegation intends to assess the ongoing ethics and viability of the Program under the new Program arrangements, how the Program is operating in practice, and strengthen relationships with key Ethiopian Government Departments and Authorities. Following the visit, a summary of outcomes will be published on this website.
The Department has become aware of some confusion in the adoption community regarding the division of Program responsibilities between the Australian Representative and Wide Horizons For Children Inc (WHFC).
The Australian Representative, Woz Lemlem Fesseha, is engaged directly by the Australian Government to run the Ethiopia-Australia Intercountry Adoption Program. She receives a fixed salary regardless of the number of children referred to, or allocated through, the Ethiopia-Australia Program. She is not an employee of WHFC and does not provide any services to, or receive any payment from, WHFC.
The Australian Representative has responsibility for the management of all Australian files including matching Australian Prospective Adoptive Parents and Ethiopian Children referred to the Ethiopia‑Australia Program. She is not involved in adoptions by American families.
The Australian Representative is responsible for liaising with relevant Ethiopian bodies on behalf of the Ethiopia‑Australia Program and maintaining the Ethiopia‑Australia Program records. She also identifies potential partner orphanages; completing comprehensive assessments and making recommendations to this Department about whether it would be a suitable partner orphanage. This information is considered by the Department when deciding whether to establish orphanage agreements. The Australian Representative has commenced this work earlier in the year–resulting in the establishment of an arrangement with the Tesfa Child and Elderly Support Organisation, Australia’s current partner orphanage–and is continuing to identify and assess other orphanages for the Department’s consideration.
Upon request, the Australian Representative can also assist Australian families with post-adoption searching. The updated post-adoption searching guidelines will be uploaded to this website soon.
Many members of the adoption community would be aware that Ethiopia is a not a signatory to the Hague Convention and non-Hague accredited US bodies have operated in Ethiopia in the past.
The Department has separately and directly engaged WHFC (an American, Hague-accredited agency) to provide support and ancillary services to the Ethiopia‑Australia Program through its Ethiopian branch. The Department identified WHFC as a suitable service provider due to their status as a Hague-accredited body, and because we have confidence in the ethics, integrity and expertise of this particular agency. Australia only establishes and maintains programs with countries, and only engages service providers, if we are confident that adoptions can be facilitated through a process which is consistent with the principles and standards of the Hague Convention. This is irrespective of whether the origin country is a signatory to the Convention.
Services provided by WHFC (through both the USA and Ethiopian office) include administrative support, shared use of transport and the completion of comprehensive background assessments of all children referred to the Ethiopia‑Australia Program. These background assessments test and confirm the accuracy and veracity of information provided about a child including the child’s legal status, personal and medical information. The background assessment also confirms that the birth family understands the permanent nature of adoption and has thus provided informed consent. Additional investigations are made, including additional birth families interviews, if it is unclear whether full and informed consent has been provided.
WHFC do not play any role in the matching of children with Australian families.
Please be aware that due to the clear distinction between adoptions by American families (which are facilitated by WHFC) and adoptions by Australian families, (which are facilitated by the Australian Representative) information on the WHFC website is not relevant to the Ethiopia‑Australia Program. Australian families should refer to the Ethiopia Country Program Table which can be accessed from the Current intercountry adoption Programs page or speak with their State or Territory Central Authority for information about the Australian Program.
As previously advised, the Ethiopia‑Australia Program is now operational. Children have been referred to the Program, their backgrounds are being checked and allocations/proposals are being made to Australian families.
The characteristics of children referred to the Ethiopia‑Australia Program vary. While there have been some infants referred to the Program, it remains the case that many children are between four and nine years old. There have been some sibling groups of two and three children referred and children have been both relinquished and abandoned.
The Ethiopia-Australia Program will continue to utilise a file management system to ensure that the Australian Representative has a variety of applicants able to adopt children of various ages, needs and sibling groups. This is to ensure children can be matched with the best family able to meet their needs. It is important that families are aware that this is a program to find families for children of all ages, including older children. Families who are willing and found suitable to adopt a child over 3 years of age may experience shorter waiting times.
Timeframes associated with the adoption process both within Australia, and to a larger extent in Ethiopia, are unpredictable. Many of the factors affecting waiting times are outside of the Ethiopia-Australia Program’s control and will be influenced by the activities of the Ethiopian authorities. However, it is likely that the wait for all new files will be at least 2 years.
The adoption fee for the Ethiopia-Australia Program is US$12,000 for a single child and US$5,230 for each sibling adopted in the same application. This amount is required to meet the standards and expectations of the Program.
The first instalment of US$6,000 is payable when the family’s file is sent to Ethiopia. The second instalment of US$6,000 (and if applicable, the sibling fee of US$5,230) is payable when the family accepts an allocation.
The Ethiopia-Australia Program is structured differently to Australia’s other intercountry adoption Programs which operate via a Central Authority to Central Authority model (China, Philippines) or a Central Authority to Adoption Agency model (South Korea, Taiwan). In each of these cases the overseas authority works with countries in addition to Australia and is responsible for meeting its running costs.
The US$12,000 Ethiopia-Australia Program fee includes an orphanage support payment (currently budgeted at US$1,220) and a charitable fee (currently budgeted at US$1,820). The remaining US$9,000 is used to meet all the fixed and variable running costs incurred in the daily operation of the Ethiopia-Australia Program and in facilitating each individual adoption. Examples of these costs include:
The Thai Central Authority, the Department of Social Development and Welfare (DSDW) have confirmed that its moratorium on receiving new applications will continue throughout 2011 while DSDW continues to progress its three-year backlog of applications. Given this backlog, waiting times have increased and there is a strong possibility that the moratorium will extend into 2012.
DSDW has reiterated that applicants may apply to adopt children with special needs while the moratorium is in place. It advised that children with special needs include children over four years of age; children with health problems; children with behavioural problems; children born to parents with mental illness; children born through incest, and sibling groups. DSDW confirmed that an age restriction on sibling groups does exist in that at least one child within the sibling group must be over four years of age (for example, a sibling group of a 2 year old and a 5 year old would be considered special needs). DSDW also confirmed that there is no upper age limit on this restriction.
Further information about the ongoing operation of this program will be provided as soon as possible.